In what way is it unintuitive?It is based on sound (and sometimes visual) cues, and in that respect, succeeds - it relies on player skill, which none of the Thief games really did.
just saw this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w5z3aiEMWE
sorry guys,but i'm not delighted
it makes game much easier and unrealistic (i know what i talking about,a brick fell on my head once,but i wasn't unconscious after that)
it also makes blackjack worthless
In before head trauma joke
Please explain how a very tiny bit of redundancy renders the blackjack worthless.
whats point of using blackjack if i can bear my reliable crate with me ?
I suppose the real question would be: Why bother with a crate (that can't go into your inventory) if you already have a blackjack?
That aside, I'm guessing the TDM guys aren't too concerned if you're "delighted" or not, Shadowhide.
God, I'd hope that mission builders wouldn't leave crates all over, or make maps where crates can't be transported from gamespace to gamespace. The days of dropping or throwing boulders or hammers at AIs, all never in conflict with the blackjack and silent gameplay, are not over! \o/
knocking guards out with crates would faster than crawling in the shadows with blackjackI suppose the real question would be: Why bother with a crate (that can't go into your inventory) if you already have a blackjack?
even direct approach is valid when you able to knock guard out with crate or chair that easy
nobody from darkfate liked that idea along with meThat aside, I'm guessing the TDM guys aren't too concerned if you're "delighted" or not, Shadowhide.
well,concept of knocking out people with heavy objects is fine,but its not working correct.
objects needs to be heavier than chair (crate is fine) and fall from much higher height than one meter
please,do not troll me this time
Anyway, a new FM is out today, and it features... rooftops!I tested it, and it's got a whole lot of neat stuff. Including an object that will KO people in 1.08... but not yet.
Looks awesome.And rooftops it's what i wanted right nowI'm grabing it
Many tools and available actions in Thief have overlaps with other things, but with noted differences. In my book, if a noisy/messy action has significant and fairly obvious potential noisy/messy consequences, then it's in the ballpark of being done right.
There may not always be a crate near by to toss, *whips out black jack.* You think the author is going to put them every where? That would look stupid for one thing. Next thing you know, we'll be able to Mario the AI. YES!
It works for Sam Fisher.
It's awesome. No one force you to use crate to KO AI. It's just an option. If you can't see benefits of it for future fms, then too bad for you.
what benefits ? running through map holding a crate and KO everyone ?Originally Posted by swordbreaker
yes,that what i wanted
whats next ? animated KO's ? bow upgrade ? KO spray ?
The question is, is it noisy? If it makes a lot of noise, then there is a clear tradeoff - use a crate, alert other AI; use a blackjack, stay silent. That makes for a meaningful choice.
Many. Use your imagination(brain).
Same goes for arrow headshots. Collect your ammo back Kill everyone. Now you will say it's not that easy. Same goes for this too!
I don't know.
Would be super cool. Don't you think so? lol
Man I'm with you!
You deserve a golden medal on demagoguery...
Melan I think it's okay, but if we want to make brainstorm; We can increase weight of crates which takes more time to carry over head of AI. In meanwhile AI can walk away. If AI stands still, then bj'ing is easy too. Or we can use destory script from Hexen Mod after request. In this way one crate will be one KO, since it'll be destroyed on usage. All these assumption I made are for fun not really I want to see achieved, but I'll be fine with either way.
when you can knock someone out that easy,there no point being stalthy at all
imagine alerted AI that is going to kill you
you dont need to run and hide
if there any crates around,you can easily knock him out like this :
(thug is standing still,but it wont be hard to knock him out even if he'd move)
look how high player can keep crate above AI head even when crouch !!
at least headshots is challenging
no,look at DX3
animated KO's sucks
well,i'm not with you
i never ghosting missions,so it wont stop me from knocking out people with chairs (that physically cannot knock mature man out when fall from 1 meter height) or cratesThe crate makes plenty of noise when it lands.
Player needs to carry heavy object more higher to gain enough momentum. You can't KO him in that position if I didn't get wrong assumption from the video.when you can knock someone out that easy,there no point being stalthy at all
imagine alerted AI that is going to kill you
you dont need to run and hide
if there any crates around,you can easily knock him out like this :
(thug is standing still,but it wont be hard to knock him out even if he'd move)
look how high player can keep crate above AI head even when crouch !!
how do you know ?Player needs to carry heavy object more higher to gain enough momentum.
anyway,its enough to stand up to place crate in 1 meter above AI head
how do you know ?You can't KO him in that position if I didn't get wrong assumption from the video.
do you think crate KO code does checks player position and height that object fell from ?
OK, I confess:
I'm your father.
joke aside, as I said it's my assumption. In the video you can see Springs carries crate higher obviously, but this may be misleading ofcourse. However, there is momentum thingy according to my experiences.
Yeah, because it's much easier to walk around with a big, laggy crate looking for somewhere that a guard is going to walk right underneath you so that you can time it perfectly and drop it on him.knocking guards out with crates would faster than crawling in the shadows with blackjack
Objects do need to be heavier than the chair (notice that the chair does NOT knock out the guard in the video?). Objects do need to fall from a height of more than one meter. Maybe you should find out a little about how the system actually works before going on about how it is "not working correct".well,concept of knocking out people with heavy objects is fine,but its not working correct.
objects needs to be heavier than chair (crate is fine) and fall from much higher height than one meter
Last edited by Springheel; 12th May 2012 at 12:25.
I think it's exactly the kind of experimenting that TDM should be doing and possibly couldn't be done elsewhere.
If it needs tweaking to balance gameplay - that's okay. If it's hopelessly awful, that's okay too - it can always come out again.
I approve thoroughly and hope TDM continues to experiment and continues to exist in a state of perpetual ever evolving betaness.
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