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Thread: "The Future of Shooters is RPGs" says... CliffyB

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Poland

    "The Future of Shooters is RPGs" says... CliffyB

    No, I'm not shitting you.

    Ken Levine is brilliant. He's been in the game for years and he's finally getting a new set up and kicking butt. There was a time when the industry warmed down, and then Bioshock came along.

    When I first saw Bioshock I thought, “how is this going to sell?” As a nerd I thought it was amazing but I was worried that a fifteen year old kid would pick it up and think “what the fuck am I looking at”?

    But it pleased me to no end that the game did so well. I had a conversation with Harvey Smith – one of the lead designers on Deus Ex – and said to him the future of shooters is RPGs. He said he completely agreed.

    I think Harvey Smith is a brilliant, under-used designer as well. Randy Pitchford at Gearbox is an absolutely brilliant designer and business man, and I think Borderlands is not getting as much hype as it should, because it really looks like a more accessible, shootery version of Fallout.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: new york.
    Bioshock sold well. Bioshock 2 will sell well. Fallout 3 was a blockbuster. All online shooters have some sort of "unlock and upgrade" ability. RPGs are the future was long as this shit is still selling well.

    When people get tired of upgrading super powers and weapons, it'll move to something else like...I don't know...real time eating sequences.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: May 2009
    RPGs about huge guys in huge power armor!

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Poland
    Bioshock sold well not because of the plasmids or other gimmicks, it sold because of clever hype. It was everywhere, but every preview still mentioned how it's this completely awesome edgy game no one ever heard about.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    In between this and BioWare stating that games substituting story for combat may be one of the new big things in the near future, we're looking at interesting, or otherwise simply curious, times ahead of us. Depends on how it all works out.

    Originally Posted by Kotaku

    Instead, BioWare creative lead Greg Zeschuk envisions mainstream games driven by story and acting, not "battle moments," telling GamesIndustry.biz that "we're actually getting to the point where the acting is almost there."

    [...]

    Zeschuk and fellow BioWare lead Ray Muzyka believe we're on the cusp of seeing blockbuster games "that are story-driven."

    Muzyka, in particular, thinks the video game industry is at its "mid-point of maturation."
    So, yeah, I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I want to take things out of context and am thus looking forward to a fully no-combat, story-intensive NeverGears of Unreal Dragons. Soon.
    Last edited by Ostriig; 8th Jul 2009 at 20:03. Reason: P.S. Yeah, I linked to a news post linking to a summarizing article linking to an interview.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2000
    Location: tall bikes and tattoos
    Quote Originally Posted by van HellSing View Post
    Bioshock sold well not because of the plasmids or other gimmicks, it sold because of clever hype. It was everywhere, but every preview still mentioned how it's this completely awesome edgy game no one ever heard about.
    It also sold well because people really, really liked it.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Poland
    The kind of people who like something because they're told to.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: May 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by van HellSing View Post
    The kind of people who like something because they're told to.
    Or the kind of people who actually enjoyed it.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2004
    Location: Somewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dresden View Post
    Or the kind of people who actually enjoyed it.
    Or the kind of people who don't know any better. It happens often when they make you believe that the game's the first of its kind.
    Last edited by JohnnyTheWolf; 8th Jul 2009 at 21:08.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2000
    Location: tall bikes and tattoos
    Or, alternately, people generally liked the game.

    You know, found it fun.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2000
    Location: sup
    Quote Originally Posted by Stitch View Post
    Baaa Baaaaa Baaaaa Baaaaaaa
    WHAT ARE YOU SAYING SHEEP? I CANT HEAR YOU.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2000
    Location: sup
    Actually, Johnny, shut the fuck up.

  13. #13
    Cuddly little misanthropic hate machine
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: someplace better than this
    Actually, I'm enjoying Bioshock a lot more- and on a much more consistent basis- than I did the first go-round. Which I've mentioned, sure, but while I still have problems with the gameplay, I'm able to actually enjoy the game's good aspects on a more lasting basis, probably because it's not crashing on me every 10 minutes.

    It's not a bad game by any means and is actually quite good. The story and atmosphere, at least, are great. You can't tell me Fort Frolic/Sander Cohen isn't at least as creepy as SS2's Recreation deck.

    Has anyone else noticed the way Bioshock was marketed? It was marketed in two ways- to oldtimers like us, as being a spiritual sequel to SS2 (which it turned out not to really live up to, causing a still-raging flamewar) and to everyone else, as being a cautionary tale about the crushing fall of man due to his own hubris.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Washington DC
    I'm not surprised. Offering shiny objects as a reward for hours of grinding is a great way to artificially increase the length of your game.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2000
    Location: sup
    I do think CliffyB has a point though, I think the pure shooter genre has bled itself out. If a game came out today with ridiculously advanced graphics but in effect was just a pure Doom clone, it'd be a massive failure. Nearly every successful FPS in the past 3-5 years has been a FPS hybrid of some sort and most improve massively upon the strict FPS formula.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2000
    Location: tall bikes and tattoos
    Quote Originally Posted by dethtoll View Post
    It's not a bad game by any means and is actually quite good.
    Yeah, I was able to accept it for what it was and enjoy the hell out of the first 2/3 (although the first level promises greatness the remaining game never even comes close to matching).

    That all being said, the last 2/3 is pretty terrible.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: New Zealand
    I have to respectfully disagree with Mr B on two counts.

    (1) Specialist shooter titles have and still are outperforming hybrids markedly.

    (2) Bioshock isn't an RPG, isn't a hybrid and has as much in common with racing games as with them. Tonics are fancy named swappable tyres for your Jackmobile and plasmids are just guns with funny names and unified ammo. If their customisation makes Bioshock any sort of RPG then being able to customise a car for your playstyle in --insert racing game here-- makes them RPGs too.

    If he'd said what he actually meant- something like "the future of shooters is to improve setting and storytelling (which Bioshock did well) while giving the illusion that our gameplay isn't shallower and more generic than an Adam Sandler movie" then I'd wholeheartedly agree.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2000
    Location: sup
    Quote Originally Posted by Stitch View Post
    ...enjoy the hell out of the first 2/3...the last 2/3 is pretty terrible.
    Does not compute.

    But I know what you mean. Personally the first 1/3 was the only really good part and even it was on a rollercoaster decline after the spectacular opening which quickly gave way to "why would I .... uhhh".

    Anyway, let's talk about FPS/RPG hybrids and how dead the FPS genre is in general. Just because CoD4 still sold well doesn't mean that it's the future of FPS gaming, and for all I dislike BioShock, I welcome the move to games of that nature over the unimaginative spawnathons presented in more standard fare.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Location: Edmonton
    CoD4 sold well because it took the doctrines of traditional FPS gameplay and, rather than change them, instead refined them to a level nearing perfection. After it, there aren't many places for these types of games to go. Gears of War did kinda the same thing for third-person shooters.

    Bioshock, for all its flaws, presents a more tenable path. Bleszinski might be incorrect in calling it an RPG, but his point—that shooters need to move in a more cerebral direction—is sound. Games like Bioshock can at least help ease the transition, though if Fallout's sales are any indication, the transition is well underway.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by Aja View Post
    CoD4 sold well because it took the doctrines of traditional FPS gameplay and, rather than change them, instead refined them to a level nearing perfection. After it, there aren't many places for these types of games to go.
    This. Call of Duty 4 took what makes a bare bones, straight up shooter and took it to the top of the mountain.

    I frequent the Epic Games boards, too, and a good number of threads have popped up because of Cliff's words on RPG's, but just listen to the guy. He's talking about BIOSHOCK. From that you should be able to tell that he doesn't necessarily mean "RPG", but "pseudo-RPG-esque elements". Sure. I can see FPS games branching out and including things that don't make a game an RPG but are things typically found in them.

    It's not that serious.
    Last edited by Taffer36; 9th Jul 2009 at 00:41.

  21. #21
    Cuddly little misanthropic hate machine
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: someplace better than this
    It's true. There aren't a lot of FPS games that I'm interested in these days.

    Actually there just aren't a lot of new games, period, that I'm interested in. I buy Valve games because I'm a shameless fanboy, but aside from that meh.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Location: Edmonton
    Despite his choice of words, I don't think it's even the RPG elements of Bioshock that Bleszinski is really talking about, but rather its overall tone and atmosphere. He was surprised that a game which so openly promoted intelligence and literary influence as selling points (whether or not that influence was gratifyingly utilized is another issue) managed to become so popular.

    Although Gears is pretty openly dumb, and it probably sold even more copies, eh?

  23. #23
    Taking a break
    Registered: Dec 2002
    Quote Originally Posted by Ostriig View Post
    In between this and BioWare stating that games substituting story for combat may be one of the new big things in the near future, we're looking at interesting, or otherwise simply curious, times ahead of us.
    Or we're simply seeing people talking out of their ass.

    CliffyB makes "more like two shitloads" TPP games. And he's gracing us with insights about RPG elements in the FPS genre. But that's CliffyB, he's like a kid, says the darnest things.

    Bioware talking about story is just so laughable it's very, very unfunny. But I suspect it's simply a part of their campaign on Origins, since it's supposed to be oh so "story-driven". Bullshit, but better than more Manson.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by Koki View Post
    CliffyB makes "more like two shitloads" TPP games. And he's gracing us with insights about RPG elements in the FPS genre.
    I like how you instantly assume that RPG elements = more intelligent.

  25. #25
    Cuddly little misanthropic hate machine
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: someplace better than this
    You don't know Koki sarcasm very well.

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