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Thread: Thief with 'ultimate difficulty' mod?

  1. #1

    Thief with 'ultimate difficulty' mod?

    Hey
    My interest in the Thief games has been rekindled as of late but I remember how I really wanted the game to be more challenging after a period of playing them non-stop. I searched the ttlg website and found the ultimate difficulty mod and thought this could do the trick. I'm just wondering whether anyone thinks the Thief games are better with the ultimate difficulty mod installed and whether it makes the gameplay more challenging. I've played both games to death, although not for a long long time (I'm probably a bit rusty actually), so I'd like to know others' opinions on it and whether it is worth playing the game again with it installed.

    Does it enhance the experience of Thief? Does anyone play using this mod? Thanks.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Drinking baby lemonade!
    I've never tried it, so can't say, although knowing what it changes, I can say it should make the game significantly more challenging. However, if you've played the OMs to death and haven't yet delved into FMs, then what are you waiting for? There are over 700 to choose from now.

  3. #3
    Thanks for the reply.

    Oh yes, I've seen the amount of FMs! I've gotta get playing them soon. That's another point: would the mod work on FMs? I was just wondering whether the mod would enhance the original missions' experience...

    Anyone else had a go at it? I would try it right now but I need to get the game working properly first. Just wondered if it was worth a look.

  4. #4
    I think the ULD reconfigures all the AI in the game, giving them superior sight, hearing, and combat senses, so i think it WOULD affect most FMS, except in specific cases where certain AI have their values over-ridden by the FM author. I think it also makes stone surfaces "noisier". Like normally you can run on stone behind most AI and they won't flinch half the time... but i think ULM fixes that.

    And yeah, check out FMs. You commonly won't find more difficult AI, but more complicated loot objectives and puzzles.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: 210x200x64
    The UD mod is a game system modification. It won't change FM's because they either use the original game system (dark.gam) or a custom game system (xxxxxx.gam).

    So you can think of the UD mod as a custom game system for the OM's. It makes getting blackjack happy very tough for one thing. No more running and thumping heads. You have to approach slowly or set up in a shadow and lean-n-jack. It's certainly a nifty take on the OM experience.


    EDIT: actually now that I think of it....I can't remember how the new game system is implemented....If it's just a new file with the same (dark.gam) name FM's that use the original dark.gam would comply.


    Don 't worry though....NV or Otto or R Soul will be along soon enough to clarify things further. :

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Drinking baby lemonade!
    ..or Yandros.

    I recall that the UD mod is just a tweaked dark.gam (default gamesys), so it works with the OMs and any FMs that use the default gamesys. That would include a significant number of FMs. You'll know if the mod will be in use because Darkloader has a checkbox for "Custom Gamesys". If it's checked, the mod won't be in effect.

  7. #7
    I apologize for bringing this up again but I have ran into a problem regarding the mod.

    I managed to get Thief Gold and all the videos working correctly on XP. I downloaded the 1.3 version of the mod and replaced the DARK.GAM file in the TG directory. Now, the game crashes whenever it loads a level, be it the training level or Bafford's. There is no error message apart from 'this program needs to close'. I restored the original and it worked fine again. Do you think this is a bug with the mod (this specific version, maybe?), or is there another problem? I reckon it's the mod.

    Anyone have any solutions/suggestions or should I just forget about it?

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Drinking baby lemonade!
    That would probably happen if you drop the T2 version of the mod file into your TG folder. Are you sure you're using the right file? They're both named dark.gam so it would be an easy mistake to make.

  9. #9
    Actually, I just re-installed the game and that seems to have fixed the problem. The game comes on and a few minutes of play shows that the mod is in effect.

    I'll go and play it now. Thank you very much for the help, I appreciate it.

  10. #10

    Some experience

    If you should use UDM or not depends on your playing style. If you plan to play according to the standard objectives then it definitely makes for a more fun experience. As said previously it makes it harder to take out your opponents. Surfaces become louder than without UDM when you walk or run on them, and more quiet than usual when you sneak. This force you to use a more sneaksie style.

    If you plan on playing by some sadistic custom rules however the situation is different. I played through TG using UDM Lytha style ones, and let me tell you, it was more annoying than fun. I guess the same applies to most specialized play styles. Let me give you a simple example. Take the guard at the thrown room in Baffords. With UDM you can't sneak past him anymore (actually kind of makes sense) and if you play Lytha-style you can't whack him over the head. So you have to run past him, grab the scepter, and run out again dodging all other guards. Since distracting him with an arrow will cause him to sound the alarm that would have the same effect. This isn't very sneakish at all.

    However you choose to play it, it wouldn't hurt if you could add a little review of your experience here in this thread when your done. Could help others who are thinking of using UDM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Body500 View Post
    ... thrown room ...
    hehe

    Sounds like UDM basically breaks the game in many places, a sort of "use at your own risk" type of thing.
    "For the Love of the Game"

  12. #12
    I have been playing the mod and have reached the Bonehoard...and I agree that it can be at times more annoying than fun!

    Bafford's was highly enjoyable, however. I don't normally play with self-imposed rules, but I try and keep the knock-outs to a minimum (so I did blackjack the throne room guard - just the one though, but yeah, it would have been impossible not to).

    Cragscleft grew kind of annoying. There were some difinitely tense parts in the mines (zombies are more sensitive as well) but the hammerites were at times just too damn sensitive. For instance, I accidently released a prisoner from a cell (and then accidently quicksaved afterwards) who ran off, got seen by the guards and then killed, but the guards would just not settle down. They become hyper-sensitive and it became virtually impossible to complete! I had to restart, but doing eveerything properly resulted in a challenging, but enjoyable experience.

    I definitely recommend the mod though because you have to get re-used to the stealth and what you can get away with - just go extra carefully through Cragscleft!

    Will update if I run into any more troubles/awesome parts in the later levels...

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Drinking baby lemonade!
    The next time I need a few weeks off of FM work, I may play through TG or T2 with the mod. I haven't played some of the OMs since 2001/2.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2008
    Location: Under Bafford's bed.
    My only reasonable complaint about this mod is the insane speed the guards are given.

    I love how their eyesight is more realistic but their hearing is far too annoying.

    In Cragscleft I can't even hear the first conversation the guards are having because they hear me coming far away.

    My second option, the lone guard patrolling the elevator is also too sensitive to the dirty floor, not even walking I can knock him out.

    I don't even want to start Undercover, that mission must be hell with this mod.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Drinking baby lemonade!
    If I get around to playing with it, I might be tempted to adjust the difficulty down a little in some areas in light of the complaints lodged here.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by AfroTaffer View Post
    I don't even want to start Undercover, that mission must be hell with this mod.
    Actually for Lytha style it doesn't matter much since you just run past everyone. I have never been more on edge playing thief than when I'm about to start the loot run in Undercover, definitely enjoyable with or without the mod. I can really recommend playing it that way for those of you who haven't tried it.

    And by "that way" I mean: get all the loot you can get without triggering the alarm, and then make up a path past all remaining loot (and the talismans) and run for it, exiting the temple at some clever point. Then take your pulse afterwards and post here.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: East Achewood, CA
    Some years ago, I went through Thief Gold with the UDM, and I found the raised difficulty acceptable. Sometimes though, I would swap the old one back in, not so much to get through a tough area, but because of missing some things, like conversations, and things that would break what the developers seemed to intend as the flow of the game.

    Fortunately, you can swap that .GAM file in and out all you like without corrupting your save.

    Thief 2, on the other hand, was nearly unbearable with UDM for some reason. Yet, I couldn't seem to turn down the challenege.

  18. #18
    Thief 2 was unbearable? I was planning on going through that next, with the mod. In what ways was it unbearable, too sensitive or was it more game-breaking?

    I have just reached Thieves' Guild and I have to say it is extremely enjoyable. I'm not playing with any limitations but I'm trying to keep knock-outs to a minimum, which is very hard in the Guild! Assassins was a good challenge (especially the return to home turf), but the Bonehoard was genuinely scary again; zombies are sped up and more sensitive which really does add to the tension. Highly recommended - can't wait to get to the Cathedral levels...

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: East Achewood, CA
    It's been a while, and sad to say, I did not complete Thief 2 (my ambition is to do so this year or next). However, the guards in some places were more sensitive than the levels were designed for. For example, in one level, I was skulking about in the shadows underneath stairways with slats in them. No matter where the guard was, if I stepped just the teensiest bit out of line, I would be seen, heard, and the guard would instantly through the building, looking for me outside. A more realistic (and playable) behavior, IMO would have been for him to peer quizzically into the dark looking for me first, rather than charging directly out of doors, screaming for assistance.

    Not that I won't bolt-on the UDM on my next go round, the temptation to my ego is just too much.

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