Thief 1/2 & SShock 2: DDFix and Enhanced Resolution Patch - discussion

[Timeslip]

1.3.10 is up.

bmp's used as replacement textures are no longer vertically flipped
When using .tga's for replacement textures, ddfix now respects the vertical/horizontal flip flags.
Added an option to manually set the refresh rate
ddfix will disable its texture loader if the res\ddfix directory is missing to improve performance

yes. I have been playing 5 tigers with it set to auto and it was fine though...

It must be pushing thief 2 to destroy/recreate multiple of textures per frame. That's the main thing that ddfix will slow down, because it breaks thief's texture cache that it usually uses to resuse texture interfaces.

1.3.10 should fix it for you, because now it'll leave the texture cache alone even if you turn Thief2Extensions on unless you really do have hi-res textures installed.

Edit: What graphics card is this with?

[Hiatus]

1.3.10? Wonder what you're up to with 1.4, Timeslip

thank you for the new version, esp. for adding custom RR I asked about - will test how it works (if it fixes 75hz issue I described).

[Timeslip]

1.3.10? Wonder what you're up to with 1.4, Timeslip

thank you for the new version, esp. for adding custom RR I asked about - will test how it works (if it fixes 75hz issue I described).

Nothing groundbreaking. Just bringing back windowed mode, adding a non-exclusive fullscreen mode and hopefully fixing ddfixes habit of not changing the resolution back properly when you exit thief. That's going to take some shuffling around off ddfix's inards though, which is what I reserve full version number changes for. (e.g. 1.3.9->1.3.10 is a minor change, because code changes were restricted to a few functions. 1.2.7->1.3.0 was a major change because it added multiple extra source files and replaced 2 whole interfaces.)

[bikerdude]

Edit: What graphics card is this with?

I currently have a Evga 8800ultra SuperClocked @684/1706/1145.

How is DDfix affected by the above.....?

biker

[Hiatus]

just tested: setting/forcing RR=85 in .ini now fixes my 75Hz-out-of-nowhere issue - yuppi !

ps how about framerate limiter? Timeslip, is it doable/feasible in current ddfix dev. stage? (I'd soo would like to be able to "emulate" LCD on my CRT ).

adding a non-exclusive fullscreen mode

what is it going to give us in practise? open up any new possibilities etc?

hopefully fixing ddfixes habit of not changing the resolution back properly when you exit thief.

hmm...? never had this issue I think but then I don't know what you mean by "proper" here. Was/it is hardware//driver specific bug/problem?

[Timeslip]

I currently have a Evga 8800ultra SuperClocked @684/1706/1145.

How is DDfix affected by the above.....?

biker

It was a memory issue more than speed. There was a bug in the early 8800 drivers that caused performance degradation if you repeatedly free'd and reused vram. On second thoughts I can't imagine that being the cause here though; it shouldn't kick in instantly, but should rather cause the stuttering to increase gradulaly the longer you played the mission.

ps how about framerate limiter? Timeslip, is it doable/feasible in current ddfix stage? (I'd soo would like to be able to "emulate" LCD on my CRT ).

Not yet. Maybe in 1.4: It'll require another framebuffer, or you'll be limited to integer multiples of your refresh rate.

what is going to give in practise?

Not much, it just means that thief is better behaved towards other programs. Running in a window requires non exclusive mode anyway, so it's no extra effort to add a fullscreen version too. (There's already code in ddfix for running in non exclusive mode anyway. I use it all the time because it makes debugging so much easier.)

hmm...? never had this issue I think but then I don't know what you mean by "proper" here. Was/it is hardware//driver specific bug/problem?

It changes the screen resolution back, but any windows you had open and maximized sometimes don't get resized to fit the screen, and stay the same size that thief was running at instead. (i.e. with a desktop resolution of 1280x1024 open windows explorer and maximize it, run thief at 800x600, close it and sometimes the windows explorer window will stay at 800x600 even though the screen changed back to 1280x1024.)

[Hiatus]

Not yet. Maybe in 1.4: It'll require another framebuffer, or you'll be limited to integer multiples of your refresh rate.

In Thief 3 there's something like that when turning Vsync on - your framerate is limited to exactly 1/3, 1/2 etc of your RR; in my case of RR=85Hz framerate is/was artificially/too low in some places/cases as a result - so in some places it's ~27 fps (1/3 of 85), in other 42/43 (1/2) etc. Do you mean sth similar here? It was on Nvidia 7xxx anyway, don't know if it behaves similarly in ATI (have Vsync off in T3 now anyway) but going to investigate it.

it took me a while to figure out why I get exactly these framerates in T3 (like why I only get constant 27 fps while starring up close at some low-res texture when my H/W was obviously capable of much more). But that is the result only, not a cause. So still up till now I've no idea why/what for they introduced such a thing - have you (maybe it's related to game being also a console title - to lower load on H/W etc)?

ps actually (forced) 2/3 divider wouldn't be so bad (2/3*85=~57 fps = close to desired 60). Are any fps (integer) offsets possible in addition to that i.e +3 fps etc?

[Timeslip]

In Thief 3 there's something like that when turning Vsync on - your framerate is limited to exactly 1/3, 1/2 etc of your RR; in my case of 85Hz framerate is artificially low - in same place it's 27 fps, in other 42/43 etc. Do you mean sth similar here?

Yup. It's exactly that problem.

[sNeaksieGarrett]

You mean the lightgem problem also was present in TG with 1.1 on older radeons as well as on nvidia cards? As I wrote, the problem doesn't exist in patched T2 (ddfix1.1).

Anyway, I "fixed" it by using newer ddfix with TG and setting 3d gamma in graphics card settings. So now I use 1.1 for T2 (because of speed problem with DX6 renderer), and 1.2.7 for TG (because of lightgem problem) BTW, with ddfix, TG visuals are much better too, without it there were plenty of pitch black areas and "spottedly" coloured textures, now it looks much more pleasant for eyes.

Sorry, I guess I didn't make that post very clear... What I meant was, 1.1 had problems with Thief Gold and the light gem, but yes, thief 2 was fine in 1.1. It only affected thief 1 for some reason.
But I see you found a system that works. But 1.2.7 is necessary for thief gold, because it finally adds the GUI so you don't have to hex-edit your thief.exe anymore Also, about radeon, I honestly don't know because I don't have a radeon. I use nvidia.

@poroshin: Sorry, it didn't even occur to me to ask if you had codecs installed. I forgot all about that. Anywho, on your thief 2 disc, one of the two discs anyway, there should be a "iv5play.exe" file which will install the indeo codecs. After that, the regindeo.bat should work.

[poroshin]

Timeslip, is it feasible to implement something like what's mentioned in a previous thread I linked to here, regarding possible widescreen support?

[bikerdude]

On second thoughts I can't imagine that being the cause here though; it shouldn't kick in instantly, but should rather cause the stuttering to increase gradulaly the longer you played the mission.

I`ll keep you posted

Ok have installed 1.3.10 and I have found the following results with the FM I am beta testing, over at the weary taffer (so TimeSlip you may want to head over there yourself, so you can test this FM with DDfix etc)....

With everything set to default in the ini and the res set to 1400*1050, AA@4x/overide, Anisio@8x in nV Cp: when walking into a large hall I get lag/stutter, when looking around said hall I get lag/stutter. If I set "Thief2Extensions=0" and drop the res to 1280*1024 the lag/stutter is reduced a bit but still present. If i then turn off AA/Aniso the lag/stutter is reduced a little bit more but still noticable.

The lag/stutter is noticable in 1.3.9/b w/T2-ext=0, but not as bad 1.3.10@1400*1050. And the lag/stutter is practically un-noticable in 1.2.5 @1280*1024

Any ideas..?

biker

[poroshin]

Hmm, I dunno what I'm doing wrong but the movies just will not play. I tried right-clicking on the Thief shortcut and selecting Run as administrator, since that option is greyed-out in Properties > Compatibility. Same thing happens when trying it on the thief.exe itself. When in the menu, clicking Intro or Credits will freeze the screen for two-three seconds and then the menu resumes.

I want to play Thief as it was meant to be

[smithpd]

I am using the latest ddfix, got 8800GT running on 169.21 whql

This sounds like good news. Owing to DDFIX (Thanks again, Timeslip), I am selling off my DX-9 cards and considering an Nvidia 8800GT as a replacement. Are there any issues with Thief 1 or Thief 2 and the 8800GT that I should be aware of before I make the plunge?

With my 7950 GT and the same 169.21 whql drivers, I have both T1 and T2 running correctly, with and without ddfix. I am hoping for the same flexibility with the 8800GT, albeit with obviously better rendering with DDFIX.

[gothic251]

Thanks for the advice Timeslip. Now, whereabouts would I hex edit it? There are many instances of the resolutions.
Which do i replace? And would it just show up in the game menu?
If this has already been answered, I'm sorry, and you can direct me to the answer.

[Simplex]

smithpd - there is no guarantee that on 8800GT both T1 and T2 will work properly withoud DDFix. I have 8800GT, 169.21 and my T2 does not run without DDFix (and SS2 neither).

Bikerdude, I am curious about your resolution - is 1400x1050 a native res of your monitor? Because it's the first time in my life I heard about such resolution.
Actually I could use it on my 20'' LCD (native 1680x1050) but when I try to set it, the picture is always stretched, even if I set aspect ratio options in flat panel scaling.

[Timeslip]

Timeslip, is it feasible to implement something like what's mentioned in a previous thread I linked to here, regarding possible widescreen support?

No, for the reasons stated in that thread.

1.3.10 is worse that 1.3.9? It should have been the same speed as 1.2 as long as you weren't using hi-res textures. Is it just because of the higher resolution you were using?

Do you get stuttering without ddfix?

Thanks for the advice Timeslip. Now, whereabouts would I hex edit it? There are many instances of the resolutions.
Which do i replace? And would it just show up in the game menu?
If this has already been answered, I'm sorry, and you can direct me to the answer.

Width goes at offset 006B156C and height at 006B156E. (2 bytes each)

[Hiatus]

Bikerdude

I'll reg at that forum later today and test this FM for stuttering with various versions of ddfix. Is the place (hall etc) where you get it far along the mission or near the start (if the former, a link to savegame from that place via PM would be nice).

also, what kind of fps (monitored with Fraps) do you get there both with and without stuttering/lag perceivable?

1.3.10 is worse that 1.3.9?

hope it turns out not to be the case - good I didn't delete 1.3.9b so still can test both.

btw Timeslip: for a couple of last ddfix versions (like in both .9b and .10) you forgot to remove "(BETA: Do not use for regular gameplay!)" string from .dll description - just letting you know . (Unless these are betas and we're beta testers unknowingly, in fact ).

btw2: I think you should consider starting (stress/perf)testing ddfix on some really huge/demanding FM. OMs from T2 even the biggest ones just don't cut it on modern H/W any more, I think (they're almost 10 years old, after all).

Bikerdude and others: which specific (already released) FM(s) (huge, H/W demanding) would you recommend to Timeslip for stress/perf. tests?

[bikerdude]

1.3.10 is worse that 1.3.9? It should have been the same speed as 1.2 as long as you weren't using hi-res textures. Is it just because of the higher resolution you were using? Does Lowering the resolution does help
Do you get stuttering without ddfix?

I tested 1.2.5/1.3.9b/1.3.10@1280*1024 with "T2Ext=0" and 1.2.5 was the smoothest.(Im running forceware 169.44) I will have to roll back to Forceware 163.75 to test vanilla Thief2, which I will do this evening. Would you like me to do the above test under the earlier (163.75)driver...?

I'll reg at that forum later today and test this FM for stuttering with various versions of ddfix. Is the place (hall etc) where you get it far along the mission or near the start (if the former, a link to savegame from that place via PM would be nice).

I only suggested TimeSlip join as its a closed testing forum, but if you ask DrK nicely as its his FM. And its at the begining where you stand in a big hall.

Bikerdude and others: which specific (already released) FM(s) (huge, H/W demanding) would you recommend to Timeslip for stress/perf. tests?

I imagine Lord Alans Factory whould be as big and complex as the FM Im beta testing atm. I will download L.A.F. this evening and test. Also any of Sliptips missions as they have large areas with updated textures, or the latest seven sisters FM.

biker

[Simplex]

I am playing 7 sisters using latest DDFix, Thief Enhancement Pack, and textures from here: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119451

So far no stuttering on 1280x1024 (although I played without AA).

BTW. Biker, could you please satisfy my curiosity as to 1400x1050 resolution?

[bikerdude]

BTW. Biker, could you please satisfy my curiosity as to 1400x1050 resolution?

do you mean the, 1400*1050 or 1440*1050 question..? The resolution used by DDfix is 1400*1050. 1440*1050 is used by some monitors though.

biker

[gothic251]

Width goes at offset 006B156C and height at 006B156E. (2 bytes each)

Umm, I don't seem to find either one of those locations in my exe, even in a completely original, unmodified exe.

[Simplex]

do you mean the, 1400*1050 or 1440*1050 question..? The resolution used by DDfix is 1400*1050. 1440*1050 is used by some monitors though.

I mean the resolution you use:

With everything set to default in the ini and the res set to 1400*1050, AA@4x/overide, Anisio@8x in nV Cp: when walking into a large hall I get lag/stutter

I am curious what kind of monitor you have that you use this resolution?

[poroshin]

Anyone have any ideas as to my videos problem? Thief looks and plays excellent otherwise, but without the videos you can understand it's not the same.

[Simplex]

The solution (if not given already) is to install indeo video codecs (iv5_play.exe i think) and to register lgvid.ax using regsrv32. All this can be found in the technical FAQ. If this does not work for you, then simply watch the avi files in any video player, outside thief. It's better than not seeing them at all.

Anyway, this is not a proper thread to write about your videos issue, this is the thread for DDfix.

[bikerdude]

I am curious what kind of monitor you have that you use this resolution?

I have a 20" NEC GX2pro which does 1680*1050, but scales lower resolutions very well. Such as 1400*1050. Im hoping TS sorts true widescreen mode so I can run thief at my monitors native res of 1680*1050.

biker